Is all the criticism of Charlie justified?

[VeganO]

I have looked at all the L1 games to see how much Charlie has played & how the team has performed.
It is as follows:
Sheff Wed 1 - 2 On bench, didn't get on
Wigan 2 - 0 Started & replaced on 56 minutes when we were ahead
Barnsley 1 - 3 On bench, didn't get on
Bromley 5 - 0 Plays 90 minutes
Luton 1-1 As Bromley
Wycombe 2 - 3 As Bromley
Stevenage 1- 0 On bench, doesn't get on
Plymouth 0 - 2 Starts & subbed on 59 minutes when we were 2 nil down
Bradford 0-0 On bench, doesn't get on.
Blackpool 2 - 0 On bench, doesn't get on
Reading 0- 1 As Blackpool
Burton 1 - 2 Plays 90 minutes

Therefore he has played in half of our wins. He has not played in 3 losses but has featured in the other 3.
He has played a full 90 minutes in 2 of our best results this season- Bromley & Luton & 56 minutes in our victory at Wigan.

I don't think he's good enough to start games & being the manager's son is problematic.

However the stats show in my view that he is not a major cause of our problems this season & criticism of him has been excessive.

[AlphabetKing]

He's in a no - win situation. I see decent flashes from him, but he shouldn't be starting imo.

I'd prefer it if a certain poster on here didn't keep pressing his agenda, though. It's tedious and adds nothing to the debate.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Another CW thread

Everyone with half a football brain (aside from his dad) can see he shouldn’t be near our starting XI and probably the bench. It clearly would affect morale and the team performance but Richie is blinded. Someone at the club needs to grow some balls, but they won’t cos Richie will huff off and we’ll have to pay him off. So it will continue until it’s too late.

And whilst Charlie is benefitting from a career at a level he almost certainly isn’t at, he’s also getting more and more pelters. Feel for him, seems a nice lad

[E10quence]

No goals or assists in any of the matches he's played so far.

[E10quence]

And whilst Charlie is benefitting from a career at a level he almost certainly isn’t at, he’s also getting more and more pelters. Feel for him, seems a nice lad

Also think that it damages his chances of getting a fair shake at another club if he becomes known as the guy who is only playing because his dad is the manager. It's the kind of thing that could end up following him around.

[Hoover Attack]

That sort of analysis is pointless. It doesn’t take into account so many factors.

Anyone who has watched those games can tell. That’s all you need to know.

[Long slender neck]

He's usually quite anonymous, we need more from a starting player.

[RedDwarf 1881]

Charlie isn't a bad player but I think the problem is we need better players if we want to achieve promotion .

[Hoover Attack]

And whilst Charlie is benefitting from a career at a level he almost certainly isn’t at, he’s also getting more and more pelters. Feel for him, seems a nice lad

Also think that it damages his chances of getting a fair shake at another club if he becomes known as the guy who is only playing because his dad is the manager. It's the kind of thing that could end up following him around.

Totally the opposite.

When Reading released him without a sniff of their first team, he was going non league. He would have ended up at a step 2 or 3 club and had a decent non league career.

Because of his dad, he’s now miraculously had 50+ games (and counting) at L1 and when he eventually leaves here, some L2 or NL side will take a punt on him. And he’ll probably eek out a career at that level.

[Hoover Attack]

He's usually quite anonymous, we need more from a starting player.

It’s exactly this.

I can remember as a kid starting out in adult football, or when a little bit older and moving up a step or 2, you were initially unsure of the level and all you wanted to do was get through the game without making a mistake. This is how he plays. All the time. It’s because he too knows he’s not at the level.

[Hoover Attack]

Charlie isn't a bad player but I think the problem is we need better players if we want to achieve promotion .

What does a bad player mean?

He’s not a L1 player. That’s all. When he steps down to his rightful level, I’m sure he’ll be a good player.

[Red_Army]

It doesn't matter if it is justified or not, it is happening and that is the point. As we saw with Sam Ling, it is the inevitable consequence of having somebody in a position of power at the club with their son in the squad.

I have no issue with Charlie whatsoever and he's had the odd decent moment, but the whole thing is damaging to the club and is one of many reasons why we aren't progressing.

[Fellowo]

Not at all, might have limited ability but has put more effort in overall than a certain player that played in the Premier League.

I can imagine that it doesn't help anyone with him being at the club though. Im sure that the other players feel they have to be very careful with what they say around Charlie for starters.

There is also the issue that poor Charlie hasn't really found a position that he can hold down and he just fills in where needed.

[RedDwarf 1881]

Not at all, might have limited ability but has put more effort in overall than a certain player that played in the Premier League.

I can imagine that it doesn't help anyone with him being at the club though. Im sure that the other players feel they have to be very careful with what they say around Charlie for starters.

There is also the issue that poor Charlie hasn't really found a position that he can hold down and he just fills in where needed.

I feel a bit sorry for him . When we win he gets none of the credit but when we lose he gets the blame . Like I've said elsewhere I think Charlie would be better off playing somewhere else . I think he would improve not playing under the same pressure

[Red_Army]

He certainly is under more pressure than some, because if the situation he's been placed in, but its also arguable that he's under less pressure than others because the manager keeps picking him despite all the evidence suggesting that he shouldn't. Others are mot afforded that luxury.

He's also lucky that he's playing for Leyton Orient with a very passive fanbase. Much like his dad, he has avoided the stick that he would get at most other clubs with more vociferous fanbases

[The Reverend]

I have looked at all the L1 games to see how much Charlie has played & how the team has performed.
It is as follows:
Sheff Wed 1 - 2 On bench, didn't get on
Wigan 2 - 0 Started & replaced on 56 minutes when we were ahead
Barnsley 1 - 3 On bench, didn't get on
Bromley 5 - 0 Plays 90 minutes
Luton 1-1 As Bromley
Wycombe 2 - 3 As Bromley
Stevenage 1- 0 On bench, doesn't get on
Plymouth 0 - 2 Starts & subbed on 59 minutes when we were 2 nil down
Bradford 0-0 On bench, doesn't get on.
Blackpool 2 - 0 On bench, doesn't get on
Reading 0- 1 As Blackpool
Burton 1 - 2 Plays 90 minutes

Therefore he has played in half of our wins. He has not played in 3 losses but has featured in the other 3.
He has played a full 90 minutes in 2 of our best results this season- Bromley & Luton & 56 minutes in our victory at Wigan.

I don't think he's good enough to start games & being the manager's son is problematic.

However the stats show in my view that he is not a major cause of our problems this season & criticism of him has been excessive.

What this cutting analysis doesn’t consider is who is on the bench when he is starting. And it’s players that we’ve (recently) paid fees for.

The situation is mental. If his dad wasn’t the manager he wouldn’t be near the bench let alone the starting line up.

The mask slipped at the end of last season when Wellens snr went on that toxic rant about his squad yet - completely unjustified - explicitly named his son as one of the very few exceptions. At that point it was completely clear that any form of objective assessment of his own son was either not possible, or intentionally ignored.

I still think the club made a mistake going all in on Wellens snr last year. They allowed long standing, influential players to get bombed out and members of staff sacked to give him full control. In doing that they made it really difficult to backtrack and oust Wellens snr if things didn’t improve - which they haven’t. He has already used senior pros, coaches and a DoF as scapegoats. It’ll be PT next.

[gshaw]

Ironically CW has had the same kind of drop off in form and confidence playing under his dad has others in the squad have experienced too.

At the beginning Charlie was creating chances, got goals and assists and looked a pretty solid utility player signing. This season haven't seen any of that, he's not the first and seems won't be the last who is having the spark drained out of them.

[Long slender neck]

Dont want the lad to feel bullied, but I'd sign a petition in favour of his removal from the squad.

[VeganO]

That sort of analysis is pointless. It doesn’t take into account so many factors.

Anyone who has watched those games can tell. That’s all you need to know.

I agree there are other factors to consider like who is he keeping out of the team when he starts & a place on the bench when he's on the bench but it's not pointless & it doesn't support the view that everything would be fine if he wasn't in the squad.
You'd be shouting from the rooftops if the stats showed that we lose when he starts & win when he doesn't - they don't show that.
He's not good enough to start & he shouldn't be playing under his dad - it's not fair to him.
You must have noticed that we've had a number of major problems this season - our defence, the form of some of our midfielders, Aaron not being fully fit, drop off in form of some players who started well, the lack of creative wing play, the behaviour of Richie re his media duties.
But yet you seem to put everything down to Charlie.

[PKM]

Dont want the lad to feel bullied, but I'd sign a petition in favour of his removal from the squad.

Could we add other names to the petition?

I forwards Hayden
Richie has forwarded Morris

[Hoover Attack]

He's not good enough to start & he shouldn't be playing under his dad - it's not fair to him.

I can’t accept this it’s not fair to him. He doesn’t have to be here. He could have stayed at Reading or signed for another L1 or L2 club….

[Fellowo]

Not at all, might have limited ability but has put more effort in overall than a certain player that played in the Premier League.

I can imagine that it doesn't help anyone with him being at the club though. Im sure that the other players feel they have to be very careful with what they say around Charlie for starters.

There is also the issue that poor Charlie hasn't really found a position that he can hold down and he just fills in where needed.

I feel a bit sorry for him . When we win he gets none of the credit but when we lose he gets the blame . Like I've said elsewhere I think Charlie would be better off playing somewhere else . I think he would improve not playing under the same pressure

Totally agree and I feel that his career has stalled somewhat at the moment. A new club willing to play him in whatever his preferred position is, will I suspect show what he's truly capable of.

[HackneyO]

Most of the criticism is for his dad who keeps on selecting him rather than him. Everyone can see he’s out of his depth and for me he’s been put in a sh*t position by his dad. For his own sake and future he should ask for a loan for January.

[Sid Bishop]

Not at all, might have limited ability but has put more effort in overall than a certain player that played in the Premier League.

I can imagine that it doesn't help anyone with him being at the club though. Im sure that the other players feel they have to be very careful with what they say around Charlie for starters.

There is also the issue that poor Charlie hasn't really found a position that he can hold down and he just fills in where needed.

"Im sure that the other players feel they have to be very careful with what they say around Charlie for starters"
Agree.

[Hoover Attack]

Not at all, might have limited ability but has put more effort in overall than a certain player that played in the Premier League.

I can imagine that it doesn't help anyone with him being at the club though. Im sure that the other players feel they have to be very careful with what they say around Charlie for starters.

There is also the issue that poor Charlie hasn't really found a position that he can hold down and he just fills in where needed.

I feel a bit sorry for him . When we win he gets none of the credit but when we lose he gets the blame . Like I've said elsewhere I think Charlie would be better off playing somewhere else . I think he would improve not playing under the same pressure

Totally agree and I feel that his career has stalled somewhat at the moment.

Stalled?

Just over 12 months ago, he was released from Reading U21s without getting anywhere near their first team (despite being 22), with no takers and destined for non League.

A year later, he’s been gifted 50+ appearances at L1. His career has been given a meteoric boost, not stalled in the slightest.